Charlotte Ward: 0:12
Hello and welcome to episode 291 of the Customer Support Leaders Podcast. I’m Charlotte Ward. Today, welcome Lauren Eimers talking about the changing identity of support. Today I’d like to welcome Lauren Eimers back. Lauren, it’s lovely to see you again after so long. It’s been an age since you last sat down to record a podcast for me. Lovely to see you. Welcome back.
Lauren Eimers: 0:45
Well, thank you. I’m so happy to be here. And yes, I feel so much has happened both on the micro and macro scales for all of us since we last were able to chat. So lots, lots we can dig into, um, given it’s been such an age since we have spoken.
Charlotte Ward: 1:02
Oh, it must be a year and a half since you were last on the podcast, I would say. Um, do you want to therefore just give everybody a little bit of a reintroduction to Lauren? Tell our new listeners and remind older listeners who uh who you are.
Lauren Eimers: 1:18
Oh, absolutely. Um, I am just like many other folks in our community, I have a varied background that led me to the customer experience and customer support space. I actually um am a licensed clinical mental health counselor as well as a licensed clinical genetic counselor. And I absolutely adored working with clients and patients in that setting, but also needed a little bit more work-life balance once I started down the path of parenthood. And that’s how I found my way to support with a software company. Um, and enjoyed nine beautiful years there, uh, and then changed to biosciences, which then led me to my current role where I am a clinical science liaison, where I have the perfect mix of both my science counseling background as well as my customer experience. So I work at a company called Mara Bio, and we are a new company in the autism testing space. And we could get into, we could have a whole other podcast on that, but I am just loving my job there. I’ve been there um since the end of last year and just get to interact with the best patients and providers and team that someone could ask for. So it’s really been a wonderful journey for me where I ended up back here talking with you.
Charlotte Ward: 2:41
Awesome. I mean, I’m so grateful that you’ve been on that journey and you arrived back here. Um and thank you so much for that reintroduction. I slightly deliberately asked who you are as a bit of a teaser into our topic today, because we’ve had a little bit of a chat just before I hit record. And I think this is a really, really interesting time to talk about who we are in support and and what the not really what the industry is is doing right now in terms of change, you know, changing technologies, AI’s influence on the how, um, how we do our jobs, how we measure our jobs, how we deliver our jobs, all of that. Like that, I think is a given at this point. I was talking about AI and support, um, which has been the primary changing kind of uh change agent over the last couple of years, I think. I’ve I’ve talked about AI and support and that changing landscape quite a lot on the podcast. But as we were talking, we sort of suddenly hit on this idea of how it’s affecting us as people, how it’s actually affecting our identity, and and that is somewhat driven by the changing nature of the role, but also I I feel like how we talk about ourselves and what our futures look like, and how that’s going to change, how attached we are to the past, the present, and the future. All of that bumbled into my head right before I hit record because we were having a quick chat about identity in this landscape. And I just think there’s a lot that I know your your fields of expertise. I’m I’m very excited to unpack everything I just said with you.
Lauren Eimers: 4:30
I mean, it’s I mean a light subject we picked for today. Absolutely um easy to tackle. So five or ten minutes will be done, right? I mean, this will be a quick one. Yep, a quick one. Uh, I do I do think we are at an inflection point in the world of support and customer experience and success, because we are seeing so many, especially of these entry roles that we talk about, where many of us got our foothold in this space, given the varied backgrounds many of us had before entering into the customer experience realm that are now being automated. And when your workers change to AI agents, how does that change who you are as middle management? How does that change your role as a director, as a VP of support, right? And those are heavy questions because it’s not only asking you to reassess your role, but also how you show up in the day-to-day, not only for how you’re prompting your agents to interact with your customer base, but also how you’re interacting with your team or who’s left of your team, um, if we’re being brutally honest, right? Yeah.
Charlotte Ward: 5:50
And and I think like that, how you show up is um it’s a really interesting point for me because again, not so much tackling this from how the job has changed, but I think there’s an for me, it’s beginning to shape how I describe myself. And I, you know, for many of us in that middle management director, VP layer, those are careers that we’ve spelt quite we spent quite some time building. And as you build a career, you build a narrative as well, which begins to become part of your identity, I think. The story that you tell when you introduce yourself, you know, to a customer or to a new colleague or or in an interview. We all have this narrative that we’ve layered on over time, over years. You know, I I was at one time I was a frontline support engineer, and now I’m I’m this with these layers of experience and this, you know, this technology background and this path that I’ve been treading, and everything is a layer on that identity, and the rate of change is changing how I identify myself because layers are being peeled back to some reason, but uh or or they’re just simply being reset. You know, I’ve spent so much of the last decade saying things like I’m a strategic leader and I’m not that hands-on because I’m much better at shaping, you know, overall strategy, thinking about the direction of so we’re not using these words, these would be awful to use in an interview, but you know what I mean? Like the narrative, even that I just tell myself is I’m looking for this kind of role where I am shaping strategy at a certain level, or I’m, you know, I’m leading, I’m leading managers, not leading individuals, never mind leading AI agents. And so, like, when when things compress and collapse like that at an organizational level, then your role naturally changes. So your identity changes. Um, hands-on is a word that I’m gonna have to, I am picking up again, you know, and that’s something I haven’t really spoken about in terms of my identity for a decade and a half, probably.
Lauren Eimers: 8:06
Yeah. Well, and I think you bring up such an amazing point where we have been building, right? And when you think of building, you think, okay, when you start a building, you lay a foundation. And the foundation that we created was reps over time as a frontline agent, answering ticket after ticket, closing tickets out, interacting with person after person. Um, and it really was a one-to-one interaction. It was moving widgets, right? And that foundation has been completely hollowed out. And so now what we’ve built, there is no foundation any longer for us to be able to express who we are and what we can bring to a company when that foundation no longer exists. That foundation is now um a singular AI agent where we are paying, you know, per interaction, per resolution, as opposed to kept customer, like KPIs are different now. We’ve got different ways of measuring success because it’s not people we’re measuring anymore, correct? Um, and so I think that it’s a real existential crisis when it comes to the people who have been building, as you say, over time. And I think there’s a piece that for me, I understand that the human brain does not it, we aren’t able to comprehend exponential growth. And that is what has happened with AI. I mean, even five years ago, you know, we were talking about this wouldn’t be such an issue. Learn how to use the tool, and the tool won’t use you. And I’m sorry, but with these latest releases, um, I I think anyone who has had any interaction with these um latest builds need to be aware that this is going to absolutely change not only the world we work in, but how we are going to work. And but it’s also a wonderful opportunity, especially if you are a leader and understanding that there will always be human beings within some point of this interaction, both the beginning user and the person that is either prompting the agent, measuring those responses, or helping the team create those responses. There’s still going to be people in the mix, but I like to think of it as back when the internet was really first starting to take off. Um, I’m young enough, yet old enough to have had an analog childhood and then to see that real panic that started to evolve when people were saying the internet’s gonna take your job. That’s true. So the internet did eradicate many roles. But I would also like to posit that my role didn’t even exist. When if you would have asked me as a fifth grader, what do you want to be when you grow up? The job that I inhabit and have inhabited over the past decade plus didn’t even exist.
Charlotte Ward: 11:07
Yeah.
Lauren Eimers: 11:08
And I think we’re going to see that as well with this new tool. It’s but it is a tool. Um, I think using the word tool is just so rudimentary because it can do so much more um if we better understand its power. But again, I think that we really don’t as human beings because the exponential growth for for each and every new release, it is just amazing. Um, and I think that the latest releases uh they actually used um the AI itself to build the newest iteration, which is also amazing. But also, again, we can’t comprehend even now if you were to say what where where is support going to be in two years? I don’t really think we have people who can say definitively what’s what is that going to look like. But I I do know there’s still going to be people that are involved from start to finish. It’s just what we do and how we do it is going to be very, very different. So that was the most long-winded way of trying to answer um our existential question of the day.
Charlotte Ward: 12:18
Yeah, and I think I think, you know, the the rate of change to your point, like that exponential um rate of growth and evolution is too much for our tiny human brains to comprehend, and and we have no hope of being able to evolve at anything like the same pace. Um if we rely just on good old mother nature. So we are gonna have to we are gonna have to like really um examine our um like our psyche, really. I think our psychological approach to this from both a coping mechanism point of view, but also an engagement, uh, and and and going back to that I-word, the identity word, you know, I think how how do we when I think about identity in that landscape, I think of sort of relationships. How are we gonna relate to this? How are we gonna move through the new world? And and I’m thinking beyond just the application of it as a tool, you know, and I think it comes back to for me, um, do what person do I want to be a year from now? Um, I it’s incredibly hard to plan for when you don’t know what the world is gonna look like in your industry a year from now. Um, except that you’re gonna have to engage with it and move as quickly as possible. And to your point, like the foundations have eroded, but we’re gonna have to like put some new layers of wallpaper on this veneer pretty quickly. I mix some metaphors there, but you know what I mean. Like if we’re still on the kind of narrative that we’ve layered up over years, we’re gonna have to build a new narrative for ourselves very quickly, aren’t we? And that’s quite that’s quite a leap for any human brain to uh make on a very individual level, I think.
Lauren Eimers: 14:23
It is, it is, but I think one of the things that has given me solace in this, you know, continually shifting um landscape is that I know that people will always need to interact with people. Yeah I also know that the human brain has always loved a good story. And the human brain also likes to feel good. So with those three things, if we can continue to keep people as a part of the process, if we can have people walking away from our interactions, remembering how they felt, right? Because people don’t really remember what’s said, but they remember what’s being felt. And then also understanding that being able to be a part of this person’s own narrative can be very helpful. And it might look a little different than just, you know, opening a ticket as a human being and answering it, hitting send and closing the ticket. That that was olden times, right? Those were in the good old days. But now it may be the the narrative that you are crafting with your team so that your agents are able to do so for your end user. Maybe that is how you’re able to communicate to leadership in how things are going to look for your customer base to ensure that their interactions are ones of authenticity that leave them feeling good. Maybe it’s you starting your own business and you now are your own CEO and you are consulting others and navigating these new waters. Because the way I kind of look at it is yes, the foundation has eroded, but that still gives us time to build our own little boat or arc around what we’ve created, and we’ll be buoyed by this new rush of water, which is now artificial intelligence that can carry us away. But I think we are still able to find the tools within ourselves, which are innately human, um, which are creativity, storytelling, emotion, connection. And that is what I do think is going to be what we can double down on. Because those are the things that cannot be recreated. And every language learning model can only use data points that already exist, correct? And it’s on us now to be the creative factor, to be the driving force to add to that. Um, and so that’s where I am hopeful and excited because I also know my kids, the jobs that they will have probably don’t exist yet, just like mine didn’t. Um, and who knows, maybe the job that I have in 10 years um will be completely different than anything I can conceive of right now. But as long as we continue to put one foot in front of the other, or I guess using my arc uh analogy, continue to paddle forward, um, even if the current is rushing and pulling us along, um, if we continue to understand that it’s our identity and how we inhabit these spaces that’s going to sustain us, I think that’s really important. But and I’m not saying this is an easy question to answer, though, right? It’s not going to get solved in a 20-minute podcast. But I think if we keep our eyes trained on the horizon, looking forward and understanding that people will continue to be a part of that equation, um, it’s it’s a reason to be hopeful.
Charlotte Ward: 18:00
Yeah, I I I agree. And I think in some ways it’s almost a little uh, you know, it’s I’m not sure that the I know that the foundations have changed. I’m not sure that we should lean too heavily into them having completely eroded. Like I think the supporting structures are still there. Um, otherwise we really are in trouble. But but like, but you know, we are human beings, and even though aspects of our day-to-day has changed and is going to continue to change quite dramatically, we have all of the foundational pieces to be able to craft new experiences both for ourselves and our customers and our teams or what’s our colleagues, what’s left of them, you know. Um, and I think that creative nature, as much as any AI can, you know, generate a video or a user experience or whatever, I I think that the true experience design will always be somewhere initiated by a human and validated by a human and given personality and the human touch by a human. And I think what that gives me hope for is that the experience that I have built over the decades that I’ve been in support is relevant because I have spent those 30-something years um relating to humans, and humans, to your point, will always want some connection with other humans. Yes, there’s uh a huge swathe of uh content out there, theory and practice out there about reducing friction. And I am no different to any other customer that if I can get my question answered by a chatbot in five seconds flat, I’m very happy. Um, but there are certain situations, and probably they’re the more heightened situations emotionally where people will still be required, even if the human touch is delivered through a more abstract experience, the the driving force behind it will always be human. And I think that’s where we have enough structural foundation left to uh to build our like that new identity on.
Lauren Eimers: 20:30
I appreciate that gentle pushback. Maybe it was too bleak of a complete erosion of the foundation and jump in the arc, like talk about some biblical, you know, scariness that I’m throwing in here. So I I do appreciate that pushback. And I do think those foundations will continue to sustain us, just as they have through many iterations of the human experience. I mean, it sounds so it’s it’s simple, but it’s not easy. How about that? So it’s simple to see what we should hang on to and continue to cultivate, but it is not easy. It’s not easy. Um, I think it can be really easy to get swept up in the worry. Um, it can be really easy to fall into despair when you have been unemployed and continuing to apply to these jobs for frontline support positions that many of us know will probably be eradicated within the next year or so because of just the advancements of tooling that’s less expensive, frictionless, if you will. So I I do, I’m not saying it’s going to be easy. Um, and I do I think that falling back on again who you are in this changing landscape can be can be where you build that new foundation. Um being able to have your community, how you connect to them is going to become more and more valuable, I think, to employers as well. I think I look sometimes to the creator community and especially how marketing and advertising has changed so much in just the past 10 years. Or even how folks are getting their news, right? I mean, we’ve seen the fall of entire news agencies because the way we as people are now consuming news and information is very, very different. And so having a community, I think being able to lean on folks again in the support-driven community, I always hearken back to that, which has just been such an amazing resource for me throughout my career. Finding mentors, being able to be a mentee, finding like-minded folks to help me through rough patches in my own career pathing, being able to help others through their own rough patches, those are the things that I think are going to sustain, but also help you define yourself or solidify what you may have already known. But when you are sitting in that interview, how you’re able to define yourself. And I know I’ve been seeing a lot of this what are we going to do with AI? We’re all going to become influencers. And I I don’t know if that’s the answer. But I think there is that little kernel of knowledge there in that building community and building your connections is always going to you’re you’ll be able to reap rewards from that, be they interpersonal, be they career-wise or otherwise. And I think that that’s another way that we can, you know, batten down the hatches because the storm that is coming that we are in the midst of, um, community will help see us through.
Charlotte Ward: 23:53
It really will. It really will. I um I I think that I mean we we’ve we’ve been through a lot of bleak landscapes in this discussion, I feel like, you know, there’s floods, there’s uh eroding foundations. Uh there I apologies. I feel like we’re in the middle of a disaster movie in many respects. But the um the hope that I have as as with you know any good disaster movie is that there’s always survivors. They always are the most resourceful um they always find new ground on which to rebuild themselves and their lives. And even in the worst disaster movies you know set in modern times there’s always a few you know skyscrapers that survive the flood or whatever. And so I do trust that there are some foundations out there that are still strong enough to support enough of the infrastructure that we’re familiar with to remind us who we are and enable us to envisage envision just enough of what the world might be like after the storm that actually we shouldn’t give up hope and we might be scared for a while or this it might be difficult to find the tools to engage with from our you know from from deep inside ourselves for this new world but but you can we will but you know humanity has done it over and over again and the only thing that’s different here is the change of pace and I think I think that’s the thing that’s that we need to think about engaging with that’s the most difficult part of all of this but it’s not impossible I think.
Lauren Eimers: 25:41
No. Again yeah it’s it’s it sounds simple on paper but it it it’s not going to be easy. Um and I I think one other thing that bears mentioning is and fear is such a very powerful emotion. I mean as a as a therapist we talk a lot about fear in session um and fear is going to be omnipresence. I think for us to think that we can just eradic eradicate fear in this situation or in each of these equations where we’re trying to figure out how do I move forward in this new world of exponential growth with AI it’s scary. I don’t know what to do. Understand the fear will always be there. But I also think using the tool why not ask AI tell me what what’s given the data that you have access to what is the next one year look like for me input your skill set input who you are in the support success experience role ask what what does it look like for me in one year? What does it look like for me in two years? Now tell me five years given what you know and utilize that information to help with your own career pathing and planning. I think understanding that bravery the adage people who are brave don’t have an absence of fear. They were fearful and they did it anyway. And so doing the brave thing and maybe looking AI right in its well I don’t know if it has eyes um looking it right straight on prompting when when needed um using it in your own tooling and in your own job if possible will continue to help you stay relevant but also possibly ahead of the curve um but understanding none of us could have planned what the last five years looked like right none of us understood the exponential growth of you know something that happened in 20 the beginning of 2020 I mean we went from like not a big deal to everyone’s not doing anything outside of their homes for the next little bit. And I think it’s the same kind of exponential growth that we’re seeing with AI and how it’s being used and utilized in the customer support space.
Charlotte Ward: 28:04
So I’m gonna yeah I I think I think you just struck something uh struck a thought here uh which I think is that to your point like nobody could have taught could have indicated to any individual what their role would look like now five years ago and I I think that where I sort of landed as you were saying that was as that narrative we tell ourselves it seems like as you tell it backwards from this end of the journey it seems if not a direct route then a clear and present route even if you did zigzag a bit like it’s rare that we actually say yeah I started there and then I wandered around in the wilderness for six and a half months before I landed that gig that didn’t last very long and I made a few mistakes on my hiring and now you know um we tend to from this end of the journey we say yep I was there for three years I then I moved to there for two years and then I was 12 years there and you know and it seems very intentional but it it often isn’t intentional and it’s a it’s a a trick our minds play on us every time we tell that story about who we are and how we arrived here. And so I think if I was looking back to you know 21 year old me and saying this is what your next 30 years is going to look like first of all I wouldn’t have believed wouldn’t have believed it. And secondly actually I would be very confused if I had it mapped out for me but arrived at certain points where suddenly I felt like the map had been taken away which I know full well it was there were points where I was in the wilderness you know emotionally professionally whatever like life is not a straight line and it’s a kind of story we tell ourselves from this end of it I think and so I think it’s natural if we because we don’t know the path ahead we can’t see it as straight and I think it it may not be it probably isn’t going to be but coming out the other side you’ll probably be kidding yourself again that it was yeah I I mean hindsight really is 2020 and it seems so streamlined and linear but we know that it wasn’t that at all.
Lauren Eimers: 30:25
I think I I love the analogy we can end on a much brighter and happier um visual where I always think of myself as this little frog on a lily pad and I’ve got a few different choices and all the lily pads look relatively great. It’s a nice calm pond I’m living on there’s lots of dragonflies for me to catch and eat. So I’ll hop on the next lily pad and you know maybe I won’t be able to hop on the lily pad um to the side of it because I’ve made that choice but there’s always another lily pad ahead and it might look a little different than what I anticipate and I can’t see how many lily pads ahead to make it to my ultimate goal. But as long as you’re continuing to hop onto that next lily pad um you’ll make your way like we all have and we all have if you can yeah if you can hold your friend’s hand while you’re doing it and you’ve got your support systems in place your community like we have here um it’s not so hard to make the leap but we can do it Charlotte I think we just need to keep on checking in on each other check in on your friends.
Charlotte Ward: 31:32
To that end um I’ve had such a lovely chat with you today and um I want to ask you to come back and check in on things with me again very soon. Would you do that?
Lauren Eimers: 31:44
Absolutely I would love to and thanks again.
Charlotte Ward: 31:47
Hopefully this isn’t too bleak let let people know it ends on a high note I swear I think we went from somewhere but from apocalypse to lilypad that that’s a good story in my book. Um so yeah thank you so much Lauren it I knew this was an interesting topic I’m so glad it was you I got to unpack it with a bit um and uh I look forward to the next one that’s it for today go to customersupportleaders.com forward slash two nine one for the show notes and I’ll see you next time
