248: Holiday fireside with Jason Yun

Charlotte Ward: 0:12

Hello and welcome to episode two hundred and forty-eight of the Customer Support Leaders Podcast. I'm Charlotte Ward. Today, Jason Yoon talks about support in the holidays. I would like to welcome back to the podcast today, Jason Yoon. Jason, it's lovely to have you back after a little bit of a break. Thank you for joining me again. Of course. It's pleasure to pleasure to spend some time with you. Particularly at this time of year, we're heading into what for me is the cold, dark winter months here in the UK. And we're heading into holiday season. And we're going to talk a little bit, a little bit about that particular season and what it can mean for some people this particular year. But yeah, welcome back. How are you doing?

Jason Yun: 1:09

I know I'm I'm so excited to have this conversation. And, you know, you're right. We're going into the holiday season. And to be honest, things are really hard right now. You know, I'm looking at a website called layoffs.fyi, and I'm literally seeing a metric of 795 tech companies that have actually laid off in total about 121K employees. And I'm just staring at this and just thinking about like, wow, that's a gigantic number. And I know, you know, two years ago, two and a half-ish when the pandemic was hitting, we're kind of falling into very similar situations. But, you know, thinking about the support community, you know, when it comes to these types of rifts, we're usually one of the first to go. We're so vulnerable. And so we really are.

Charlotte Ward: 1:54

We really are, yeah.

Jason Yun: 1:56

We are. And you know, it's hard because it makes sense. You know, when you have less customers, there's less use cases, there's less conversations. And so what I want to focus on is actually our colleagues and friends who actually are in the same support world and may have been impacted by layoffs. Maybe they chose to quit recently. But I want to talk about some strategies that they should consider, especially during this time during the holiday season where things feel slow and things can feel stagnated. And I just really want to give some words of encouragement and things that I've followed, because I've been impacted by these things as well, just to set them up for success.

Charlotte Ward: 2:27

It's a great, great topic. Um, and uh a very difficult time of year to go through this kind of um experience, right? And and I think we all know someone who's been there, and particularly in this current climate with those kind of numbers that you're talking about, those huge, very sad numbers. Um, yeah, we all know someone, don't we? Uh and it's a very difficult time. I mean, I've been through it at this time of year myself. Historically, you know, quite a few years back, I was I was let go at the start of November. And, you know, I really just wanted to kind of hang up my spurs for the winter and say, well, that's it. And there's absolutely nothing I can do at this time of year. But but there are things you can do, right?

Jason Yun: 3:09

Absolutely. And that's what I want this conversation to be about. It's really the fact that we know we're going to things where things are slower, there's less opportunities, but it's not to give up hope. Right. I want to make sure that people can walk away from this conversation, just knowing here are some things to consider and hopefully take a few, you know, a few of these insights and just take them as action items as they get really ready for the new year.

Charlotte Ward: 3:31

So what's the uh what's the first thing then? What's top of the list, do you think? Yeah.

Jason Yun: 3:36

The first thing really is don't let pride dictate what you can do with your budget and support. I think at the end of the day, you know, it's it's really hard for us to want to say, oh, you know, this is what I've been focusing on. This is the title, this is my job. You know, I don't want to do an odd job. I don't want to do temp job. But at the end of the day, your budget will dictate what you're going to do. And similarly, the same thing when it comes to support, right? I think the hardest thing for all of us to go through is being vulnerable and recognizing when we need help. And similar to the support side, right? Not everyone is a generalist. Some people are specialists, or some people should just not do support. It's not within their skill set. And when it comes to people who are in the situation, you know, the one thing that I've learned, you know, when I was first laid off was the reality that, you know, I have amazing friends, but not every friend knows how to help me, especially in the professional side of things. And so I do think it's so important that, you know, when you're going through this process, I think the first thing to recognize is think about your mental health. You know, make sure that there's things that you're really struggling with, you know, especially when it comes to you choosing to leave somewhere or you're forced to leave somewhere. Make sure you're finding the right professional help. Meaning, if you know that your support network can't really identify these issues or really offer great feedback or ideas, or more importantly, if they can't be objective, really look for a mental health professional, right? There are conversations I tell my friends and colleagues from like, look, I hear what you're sharing with me. I appreciate you coming to me, but I'm not the best on this one. I don't want to talk about something that I know I actually don't know what to do. And so making sure that we're able to find those right resources, especially professionals, I think it's really relevant and really important, especially now. And so that's number one, which is find professional health. If you feel like you just need a little more stabilization, if you just need a little more guidance, please consider that.

Charlotte Ward: 5:30

But everything I mean, I I actually I could like I I I couldn't agree more. First of all, you may not have the people with the skills or the the mindset or the the uh you know the ability to contribute to your mental health in the right way in your friends' circle and or in your family. And that is that is no statement about the quality of those friendships or relationships or or the the you know the people involved. It's just that sometimes work is so very different from our personal life, isn't it? Um and and you just need support in different ways. And not one person in any walk of your life, any part of your life can provide everything you need, particularly not when you're going through something so turbulent as this.

Jason Yun: 6:19

Absolutely. And you know, I think that's why I say that is number one. Make sure if you can find a resource, find it, right? But there are some great introspective things that people can also just do with no with themselves. And you know, when someone gets impacted, you know, the first thing I always warn them is the hardest question that you're ever gonna have to prepare yourself for is when people ask you, How are you? How have you been? Like, how are you doing since you left? And it I remember the first time I was asked this when I was first laid off, I felt so depressed. I I didn't have an update. You know, no one wants to say, Oh, I'm still looking and I can't find anything. You know, oh, I you know, I've had 10 interviews and I've they're all coming back as rejections and I can't get feedback and it, you know, it's so hard. And something that I learned when I was going to my friends and having these conversations, a lot of them just didn't know what to do. I think they expected me to say, I'm fine, I'm okay, or maybe I have great news. But the moment I shared that, you know, for a lot of my friends, they were just like, Well, that sucks. I'm so sorry. Let me know what I can do to help you. And I was like, What is this? It was such a hard reality where I realized not everyone's prepared to actually be there.

Charlotte Ward: 7:33

Yeah, and I mean intentional or unintentional, and I'm sure most of the time it's unintentional, but but those kind of questions where you have no news or you have or your news is that you're just still sending out resumes and still applying, and it's been weeks or months or however long, like the it begins to feel like I felt I I I have at moments when this has happened to me, felt like I was fighting a war on two fronts, you know, like I was trying to be strong for my job search, but also trying to be strong for the people who were asking me how it was going as well. Uh and and that kind of I felt like I was having to justify myself in in two directions all the time, and it's exhausting.

Jason Yun: 8:19

Exactly. And then when you think about the fact that it's just not one singular conversation, but dozens of conversations that you're having with your friends, it all stacks on top of each other and it just gets very encumbersome. Which is why I love to recommend these situations. Be vulnerable, but you don't have to offer a follow-up or an answer until you're ready. Right. And so, you know, some people love to say, I'm taking a break, I'm going on vacation. Oh, you know, actually, I'm I'm reading these novels that I've just had sitting there forever, and I'm just really excited to have those moments. Like it's okay to share fun things that you're doing with yourself. But when it comes to the job search and what's going on, you don't have to give people answers, especially if you feel like they're not able to help, which is why it kind of goes to the next tip, which is, you know, when you're thinking about your next steps and what you want to do, you know, utilize the people in your network that can actually help you. Meaning, there are always people who are amazing at interviews. There are folks who are killer in terms of their resumes and their LinkedIns. And of course, there are people who love to do intros because they have a great network. And so when you're really preparing yourself to go into these conversations, have an action. If it's somebody that you know that can that you feel like can really support you, prepare to ask them for that favor. Ask them for that help. Because at the end of the day, you want to be with people who really want to actively support you, not just say, oh, no, Charlotte, I'm so sorry to hear this. You know, let me know how I can help. No, you need to tell them what you need because that's how you truly discover the folks who really do care about you and why you succeed.

Charlotte Ward: 9:51

Very true, very true. That network is so important, isn't it? And I uh you mentioned it briefly there, but to me, the one of the biggest actions you can take that a lot of people don't appreciate the value of because it is a it it takes time to warm up, it is to build your network, not just in number, but in strength, you know, and and and and as you said, those those questions, having meaningful conversations with your existing network and the people that you're adding to your network during this time, it it really built it builds so many positive um cycles into your search, I think, because it strengthens your mindset, it helps you articulate where you are and where you're going, uh, and it gives you confidence, right?

Jason Yun: 10:41

Absolutely. And I think this is a nice reinforcement of, you know, when it's the flip side, when you're actually able to help others. That's why, you know, when people mention to me they would love interview help or resumes or interest, I never say no. Because I know when I'm on the other side, I count on every single interaction and I'm here where I am now, thanks to all my network truly being on helping me, right? And then thinking about the last step is just really a good reminder to folks, especially in the support space. Like empathy is one of our biggest superpowers. So, of course, when we have these issues and these challenges, we're hurt, right? And it may cause some people to question do I want to stay in support? And so I do want to know a reminder to the folks out there. Like your support journey will always be there. You can always choose what you want to do. But if you feel like this is somewhere where you don't want to stay, you know, there are so many amazing adjacent functions within customer success, trust and safety, account management. It doesn't hurt to have these conversations with folks who are also in those spaces to see what it's like, right? Like you don't have to feel like you're trapped in support you've been doing for 10 years, right? You you will have the ability to migrate these skills to other similar teams. And so don't feel like it's the end all be all.

Charlotte Ward: 11:50

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And and that in itself is not a final step. You can go and try something out and come back to support if support is what you truly love. But I and I think you bring the skills back in, right? If you absolutely if you step, if you step into a success role and you know, build on your commercial skills. Who who doesn't want better commercial skills in a support team?

Jason Yun: 12:11

Absolutely. And I think it's so important for folks to also remember that, you know, as a hiring manager, like we understand when riffs happen. We understand people decide to leave. What we care about is just what was your journey? What did you learn? And more importantly, what makes you want to join my team? That's what we care about, not the fact that you swap the function and so forth, right?

Charlotte Ward: 12:30

Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Absolutely. Gosh, it's it's such a lot to take on board. Um, but these have been some really great tips. Uh, I wholeheartedly agree with every one of them, Jason. And uh it's so nice to hear like somebody say, I that, you know, we should really give back. At some point you're going to be in a position to help someone else.

Jason Yun: 12:53

Absolutely. And, you know, I think the the most important piece after all these steps is if you're somebody who is able to be okay to being vulnerable and being curious, you know, you can celebrate yourself. You have surrounded yourself with people who actively want to help you and you feel comfortable and confident, that's the right time when you're actually ready to help others, right? Because rarely are we by ourselves in situations. And so as long as you feel solid and you feel supported, then that's the right time when you can pay it for by helping others actively.

Charlotte Ward: 13:21

I couldn't agree more. Fascinating conversation, Jason, as always. And and thank you so much for some really solid tips. Um, at this time of year, it it's very difficult. But I I think also there's a a a lot of reasons to be optimistic as we go into 2023. And uh, you know, I hope everyone has uh as positive an experience as possible if they're going through the this challenge right now. Um, and you and I and the rest of uh the support world out there is is there to support you. So I think we can both say that um we'd both be very happy for anyone to reach out to us directly if they're in this situation, right?

Jason Yun: 14:04

Absolutely.

Charlotte Ward: 14:06

Thanks so much, Jason. Thank you for joining me.

Jason Yun: 14:09

Of course, thank you, Charlie. I'll see you in the new year. See you then.

Charlotte Ward: 14:16

That's it for today. Go to customersupportleaders.com forward slash two four eight for the show notes, and I'll see you next time.