216: Building a Team from Scratch with Ashley Sachs

Charlotte Ward: 0:13

Hello and welcome to episode two hundred and sixteen of the Customer Support Leaders Podcast. I'm Charlotte Ward. The theme for this week is Building a Team from Scratch. So stay tuned for five leaders talking about that very topic. I'd like to welcome to the podcast today Ashley Sachs. Ashley, it's been a little while. It's lovely to have you join me again for a chat. And this week we're talking about starting a team from scratch. Welcome.

Ashley Sachs: 0:47

Thanks for having me again. It's always a pleasure.

Charlotte Ward: 0:51

Thanks for joining me. So we had confession time. I do chat to my guests before I hit the record button. So we just we were just exchanging a few thoughts on this. So I have a little heads up on what you're going to talk about today. And I'm I'm quite excited by this because you want to talk about um something that you got from support driven, some advice you were given. I guess what feels like nowadays back in the day, but was a few years ago, right? And has carried you through in good stead to this very day. So maybe you can tell us what that advice was.

Ashley Sachs: 1:25

Yeah, absolutely. So a little bit of background. I was um whereby my company's first US-based hire um in a Norwegian-based company. So it was just me, myself, and I, and that was the support team for a solid 10 months or so. And uh I leaned on my external communities a lot. I really didn't have my coworkers around, and I was the only uh customer experience focused uh employee at the time. So I kind of have to, I had to start from scratch and also find my resources from other places, and support driven was one of them. So, in the midst, uh this was four and a half years ago, in the midst of some conversations and the chit chat channel at the time, uh, I asked people, you know, what are the things from starting a support team that you all have done that have really carried on? And somebody had suggested, and I'm sorry I can't remember who, uh, but they totally take the credit for this, is outlining your operating principles and going ahead and setting forth basically some principles that you can make a filter for decisions through, and also uh just kind of start setting up a little bit of culture around as well. Um, what are some things that you can just outline as um how you want the sport team to operate and how you want to interact with customers? So that's what I did. And that is exactly what I've been using, honestly, for the past four and a half years.

Charlotte Ward: 2:53

That's um, I I need to I need to hear what this looks like then because when you when you say when you say operating principles and then talk about like using them as a filter for decisions, my mind goes to that kind of higher set of maybe company values. Values. Is it is it similar to values? Is it very different from values? Is it very support specific? Tell me what they look like.

Ashley Sachs: 3:16

Yeah, so they started very support specific because at the stage of our company, we didn't have company values at the time, like stated and you know, openly documented on our internal documentation, that kind of stuff. Um, now Wearby does, and they're incredible principles and they're public. So anybody listening, you know, have a dig and look at those. We're very proud of them. But um, these at the time were very much just how we want to operate as a support team that uh gives a good customer experience, but also helps us uh reflect the brand. Um, at the time we were still kind of figuring out our brand, but we knew it was very human and it always has been human. Uh so that's kind of what we um kind of went with or what I went with at the time. Um so I'm happy to share like a couple because now what I've done um as we've evolved into the company we are today and have our own company values, uh I've actually mapped some of our um principles to our um our company values as a whole. So they so they kind of are reflective of each other in a sense. Um and there's definitely a connection there.

Charlotte Ward: 4:28

That that makes sense. And I'd love like if you could share a couple of examples, I'd love that. But but not only for the reason like that I think they'd be interesting to talk about, but but I think um that people listening to this probably would appreciate like having an example, like almost like where do I pitch this? What what kind of thing? But as you say, like you're you you've aligned quite uh significantly now with corporate values, and everyone out there is working for a different organization with a different set of values. So they're gonna have their own kind of thought processes to go through. But I kind of yeah, I'm fascinated like where where yours pitch against those custom company values.

Ashley Sachs: 5:07

Yeah, so I think a really good example of this. So one of our support principles is interactions over transactions. Um, so like the underlying, like um like the italics of that, I guess if you would say, um, are basically we're humans, not robots. So we're genuine and personal in our customer replies. Um, no matter how many times I have to answer the same question. Um, and I also say never be afraid to be transparent and set attainable expectations. Uh, like we're human, but not superhuman. So this really translates into the company value of human first. Try to have a human first approach in the product, in our branding, in our service. So that's kind of where they are reflective of each other. Um, and principles like this have also been a really crucial part of my recruiting process too. Um, we have a practical project for every role at Whereby when you go through the recruitment process, and this is part of my practical project. I have um the candidates go through our support principles, um, tell us which one they identify um the most with, um, what's where have they seen this exhibited or maybe not exhibited, um, and that kind of stuff. So I use it also as like a filter in recruiting too, which is very um helpful.

Charlotte Ward: 6:21

So that that's super interesting. And I and I can see the connection. And yeah, it's really, really support specific. I really like that. Um how when you drew up these principles, were you still alone in the team, or was this like something that you were getting conversations going about, like when there was two or three of you?

Ashley Sachs: 6:42

Um it's version one started when it was just me, because it was really much about like, okay, I know I'm building this team out. Where do I want it to go? And then um, as I added more colleagues on, I really um embraced evolution of it too. Like, hey, um, my second hire is like, do these seem realistic? And what um do you think is something that we can add to it or take away that kind of stuff? So it was very much uh embracing, yeah, I would say evolution of the support principles. But as our team has grown, I would say they haven't really they haven't really changed in the past two years. Um and I and what was really exciting about it is when we saw our company values come up and we all really decided on our company values, they weren't very much different than our support principles. So that's like we knew we were on the right path, and there's a little bit of affirmation there when the values came out.

Charlotte Ward: 7:38

So nice, nice, absolutely. But I think I think what you described there though is to be expected, isn't it? You you in those early stages of team building, of organization building, so much is malleable. But just there comes a point where you can't flex everything every day. You can't have the same conversations with a a team of eight or ten or twenty that you have with a team of two or three when you're still forming ideas and and everything is still very fluid. So there does come a point, I guess, where evolving those significantly is quite a large piece of work.

Ashley Sachs: 8:14

Yeah, definitely. And I think um what's really important when you're establishing support principles for anybody listening that does go through this is also to think about um preparing for the evolution of them. And then also when you start writing them, preparing for them being sustainable in a sense too, right? Like you have to have a good mix of uh having principles that will grow with the company, but then also leaving it open to where, okay, there may be some things that we need to shift a little bit about this. Um, and then really thinking about how each principle might um build on another too, I think is really important. Like one of our other principles is own issues with curiosity and passion. So it speaks to ownership, but also curiosity and um being creative too. Like yes, you might have to say the same thing to a customer six different times and you're gonna do that um in a human way, but at that point you're gonna be innovative enough to say, hey, we need a KB article about this, or hey, like this is definitely product feedback. So in taking ownership of that. So you kind of have to think about how each individual principal might build off the other one. And you see it in the holistic view.

Charlotte Ward: 9:27

Yeah, that totally makes sense. It's quite empowering, therefore, isn't it? Like actually actually it's permission to say, you know what, I have spotted that this thing needs doing. And it's okay because that's the way we operate. I'm really not going out on a limb here by suggesting that there's a you know a product change. Like I'm not operating as a as an individual, I'm operating in line with our principles.

Ashley Sachs: 9:55

Yeah, yeah. And it and again, that takes in tell me like I did have other people outside of support look these over, like some of my colleagues that maybe were in product that were in engineering to get their feedback on like, hey, do you think this is something that would positively impact your team when we when we start talking about this is how support operates? Um, so there was like some cross-functional feedback loop that was uh that went into this work as well.

Charlotte Ward: 10:29

Yeah, yeah, that's awesome. Have you found other teams in the organization have taken your model and and kind of gone through similar exercises themselves?

Ashley Sachs: 10:40

Yeah, so um we have so at whereby we do product squads. So each um product team is over a different part of the experience and each product manager is ahead of that uh product squad. So I've seen um some product teams adopt something very similar, uh, where it's also they are really big on highlighting goals too, as well. Like what's the purpose of uh team activation, which would be the very first part of our experience when we try to activate customers in the product? Um what's their goals and how do they operate for those goals? I've seen some of that um in notion as well. That's what we use for internal documentation. But yeah, for some teams it has.

Charlotte Ward: 11:23

That's really good. That's really good. And I guess um the uh the final thing that I'd like to ask you. Well, first of all, I is how many do you have? Like what's what's your list look like?

Ashley Sachs: 11:32

Is it I have one, two, three, four, five, six, seven. So not necessarily the Ten Commandments, but seven principles of support. It sound sounds good.

Charlotte Ward: 11:44

It's alliterative, I like it. And some principles of support, right?

Ashley Sachs: 11:48

Uh yeah, yeah, yeah.

Charlotte Ward: 11:50

That that then either uh what is it, sins or virtues. There we go. Well, they are virtues.

Ashley Sachs: 11:56

Yeah. So everybody has their own sweet spot, right? And for this, for us, it was this was our our sweet spot. And um, I think the goal was for me to hear my team talk about some of our principles in some of our meetings when we're talking about ticket handling or how we're gonna respond to customers in certain situations. And that has happened at least a handful of times now. So I I think I'm gonna keep them. I think they're they're doing well for now.

Charlotte Ward: 12:25

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's not an onerous number. Like if you had 20 things laid out there, that would be quite like which one are we trying to fulfill like operate against today? I don't know. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Like, absolutely. Um, yeah. I I think that's amazing. Um, which would you say, if you can share one other one with us, it is one that's served you in really great stead over the last four and a half years.

Ashley Sachs: 12:53

Um oh man, I I love uh okay. I can't pick one. I'm gonna tell you two if that's okay. So my two favorite are empathy over prideful expertise. Uh so it's really about meeting the customer where they are, even though we're experts in our product and we deal with it every day. And some questions may be extremely easy or obvious to us. Uh meeting the customer and their non-expertise, that's why they're coming to us. And also that shapes the way we write documentation as well and um provide education and um proactive support. And then the other one is, of course, self-care uh instead of overachievement. So I'm uh I think that speaks to a lot of support orgs, right? Um, you need time away from the queue. You need time to invest in yourself, whatever that looks like, and you need time to grow. So I'm really um a stickler about that on my team, and that's why that's one of the principles. Um, you will not be a good sport person if you're burnout or if you are um just not at your your best because you haven't rest. So yeah, those are my two favorites. Couldn't pick one, so that's what I got my two on.

Charlotte Ward: 14:05

They're both great ones, like like a beloved pair of twins in the seven. We'll we'll take that.

Ashley Sachs: 14:13

They know each other very well. Yeah, excellent.

Charlotte Ward: 14:16

Thank you so much for joining me today, Ashley. That's been great.

Ashley Sachs: 14:19

Thanks for having me. It's a delight.

Charlotte Ward: 14:21

Come back soon. That's it for today. Go to customersupportleaders.com forward slash two one six for the show notes, and I'll see you next time.